[00:00:03] Speaker A: Hello beautiful souls, and welcome to Shruti Out Loud podcast, your goto destination for inspiring stories, insightful discussions and practical wisdom on embracing the ever changing journey of life. I am your host Shruti and I'm thrilled to have you join me on this transformative path towards self discovery, brain and growth.
[00:00:28] Speaker B: Hi and welcome back to Shruti Outlook podcast. So, as you know that we keep bringing in guests who can help you out, who can motivate you in your personal as well as your professional.
Yes. So today is no different and I am your host Shruti. And today we are going to delve into the world of leadership, but through a different lens.
Today we are going to bring in the factor of stoicism and somehow we are going to make a conversation wherein how stoicism can play a role in leadership. So that's the discussion that we are having today and talking about our guest.
Our guest today is a true embodiment of leadership with a rich background as a soldier, scholar and co founder of Lisa Home Solutions. He's also a leadership coach and mentor who has helped numerous corporate professionals in their journey towards CXO roots. And what's even more fascinating is his commitment to stoic philosophy. That's what I was mentioning. So today we'll uncover the profound connection between stoicism and leadership. So let's welcome Rakesha Pathyai.
Hi, welcome to Shruti Outlook podcast, Mr. Pathyai. And we are so glad that we are doing this session with you.
[00:02:01] Speaker C: Pleasure is, as they say, entirely mine and thank you. Thanks a lot. Thank you Shruti having me on board and I think I would also take this opportunity to give a quick intro about self, who I am, what my journey has been. So I was born at Alabad in UP and then studied all around the state and graduated from Alabad industry and that too in philosophy. I had some very peculiar interest and then joined indian armed forces, Indian army in 1992 and last year, 2022, I took Aliradarman to pursue my passion of writing and taking deep dive in strike philosophy, researching all that thing. And then leadership coach also happened in between. So that's been my journey so far and lately now I am fully into the stoic philosophy and stoic leadership. I have developed a stoic leadership module, development module which is assisting a lot of corporate and a lot of professionals in their journey to, as I say in their journey to cxos.
So that's been my existence so far in this universe. So this is me now. Over to you.
[00:03:34] Speaker B: Thank you so much Mr. Pathya, for letting our audience know where exactly you are coming from. Before we dive deep into the list of questions that I have for you. I know there are too many, but I couldn't help it. And I think all of these questions sort of need to be addressed. So to start off with, can you explain what stoicism is in simple terms for our audience who might not be familiar with this philosophy?
[00:04:02] Speaker C: So, Shruti, stoichism is a way of life, right? It's a way of life where you have better control of your existence.
You are making all conscious effort to increase your positive emotions, reduce your negative emotions, right? And live a life which is very harmonious, which is closest to the nature.
So all in all, it's a way of life. It's a way of life where you stay solid. You have got that thought of staying unruffled. Things which are happening in and around your mundane life is not impacting you, affecting you. And you are charting a course for self which is very empowering, very powerful, and you are striving to live a life of your higher existence. So in Nutshell, Dharnagani ache nikai or mastra.
Yeah, that's what in Mumbai language, if I may put it across, historic philosophy.
[00:05:27] Speaker B: Right. I think you have explained it beautifully and for our audience because I think there might be some number who are not aware of what exactly it is. And through this question, I think we have already said the core of this discussion that we can take ahead.
[00:05:49] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:05:49] Speaker B: So, Mr. Pathya, how did your military experience influence your understanding of this philosophy and its connection to leadership?
[00:06:01] Speaker C: Right? Shruti, military leadership. As it is, leadership is all about being in front.
Lead is the word, primary emotion in the word leader. And in military leadership, you lead by your own example, right? You walk the talk.
You are not just sitting behind and passing orders until. Unless you are up there in front, showing the path, doing what you're expecting others to do and follow. That's what is all about military leadership. And somewhere when taking deep dive, I was taking deep dive into stoic philosophy. That's what they also.
Marcus Aurelius, who's one of the only known philosopher king in the human history, he was a king and he was a philosopher too. And that's why he is considered as the only single person in the humanity who was a king too, and a philosopher too, he used to say. And he has written in his famous book of meditations wherein he says, don't talk. What a good man should be, be that man, something similar. Even Gandhiji used to propagate.
So that's what the stoichism and military leadership is all about. And that's where the influence and the congruence I could see and I could imbibe the thoughts of stoichism and bring into my own existence as a military leader. And all along my career of 30 years. And that was very effective. It became very natural, it became part of me and really helped me in my performance of duty and as being a military leader. So that's it. That's what I think you asked me.
[00:08:23] Speaker B: Right.
So, Mr. Pathy Stoic philosophy emphasizes the importance of maintaining emotional composure, right?
[00:08:35] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:08:35] Speaker B: So how can this be applied in leadership, particularly in high stress situations? Because obviously when you are a leader, you are constantly going through situations where you have to take decisions or you have to handle situations. So stress is a constant factor, I would say, on a day to day basis. So could you tell how this philosophy, the Stoic philosophy, can be applied in those situations?
[00:09:06] Speaker C: Right. Shruti. Shruti. There's one very powerful teaching in stoichism where they say dichotomy of control, which means, what are the things which are controllables in life and which are non controllables?
So there it is very clearly stated that focus on the things you can control in our daily existence, in our surrounding, in our own particular individual life. There are n number of things happening, whether it is your own personal existence, your professional, your office, your social surroundings, everywhere.
If you just put your thought you can easily decipher. There are broadly two kind of things happening. Things which you can control, things which you cannot control. And beautifully, the things which you can control are your own actions, your own thoughts, your own words.
And whatever you do.
And emotions are what emotions are like. Anger, sadness, frustration, all these are emotions, right? And how they get generated, they are the result of various situations wherein we get easily, we feel under, not in control or frustrated or stoics say, put your mind, what are the things which you can control? And don't worry about which you cannot. And look something similar. Even Gita says our own song or karma, niwadi karashte, mafalish all does it say, focus on the karma, focus on the deed, focus on the things which you can control.
The resultant, the result is not in your control. So when you put your time, your energy, your focus on the things which are your control, then surely the things which frustrate you would be less. That's what increasing the positive emotion and decreasing the negative one. And that's where the entire thing comes in. So if as an individual, I'm putting my mind the things which I can control.
Now you see, example, various examples like Shruti was supposed to have this podcast today evening schedule. Earlier, Shruti and me could have been easily frustrated even though we decided to record it way back. But there were a lot of things which we could not control.
I was committed right then. I was traveling. And then like morning, we had scheduled this. But again, there's something in a very urgent personal front came up. We had to schedule it in the evening. So all those factors were not in our control. But one thing was in our control to show up to come with a relaxed and happy mind, with totally focused thoughts centered and with an open and cheerful mind where we could interact to each other, we could learn from each other. You could ask things which I know a little bit. So these are the controllable factors, right? So this is what is being talked about in strikeism and this is what you asked.
[00:12:59] Speaker B: I completely agree with you that yes, to every situation, everything is not under our control.
But I think what humans now are very much used to is that they want to control every little second of their life, that they want it to work just the way they want it. And even if it goes like, even just a degree from where they expected it to be to either left or right, they lose it. They completely lose it. And people have episodes because of these things.
I think my next question would be, although it is a little away from the list of questions that I have already prepared for you, but how can someone start practicing this? Because just letting go of the fact that you cannot control every situation, accepting that fact. So could you maybe give us a little brief on that?
[00:14:13] Speaker C: Yeah, surely, Shruti, like you said, how to. First, what I understood, imbibe those teachings in our personal lives as a start point. Right.
First thing first, to respond to that statement that a lot of us in our present lives, we want to really control every second of our existence. And that's where because we are unable, because nature does not allow, because there are a whole lot of parameters which we cannot control.
The frustration is. That's why the anxiety is. That's why the whole lot of issues is mental health issues. That's why a whole lot of issues in personal front, in professional front, in social front. That's why the challenges humanity is facing. Because of the nature or because of the thought that I can control, I can control my own existence. No, sir. No, ma'am, you cannot. You can surely control your own actions and reactions.
You can control how you are going to react to a particular situation, a particular occurrence, but you cannot control what is happening outside your existence.
Your control finishes, as they say, your freedom finishes where my nose starts. I would say in a stoic word, your control finishes where your physical existence stops.
Your mental existence stops. You can control your mind, you cannot control what is happening around, but surely you can control how you're going to react to it.
You come down, you go on the street and somebody says anything or rash tries or anything, you cannot control those things. But surely you can control not to lose your own mental peace, how you react to it.
You can be hugely offended by whatever happened, or you can just smile and okay, fair enough, and move on. Because if you react very badly or negatively, it would have a resultant chain of reaction, a thing which could have been a minor statement, which could be very offensive, which could be a minor incident, somebody being very wrong or bad to you. If you react in the same manner, maybe in a worse manner or any manner, which is escalating the issue, see the loss of time and energy and the wastages, right, as they say in management, opportunity cost.
You could have done something better, you could have employed your mind, your time somewhere else, you could have been in a better situation, more happier. So just to address that, the control thing is where. And that's where another thing I'll just introduce to you, there's a thing called amofati, hugely very profound philosophy, where they say, acceptance, amofati, accept your fat fate, accept whatever is for you, with you in your life.
If you are challenging your own existence, if you're challenging your own situation, you are in big shock, you are in big trouble. Then accept it as a leader. Also, there'll be a whole lot of challenges in performance of your leadership role. Whole lot of things will happen the way you would have not envisaged. And that's where.
Because you accept the fate, because the acceptance is there, the things will go wrong and they will go wrong. You will plan, you'll have option ABC d will happen. But that's where if you are agile, if you are mindful, if you are having that mental strength and clarity which stoics teach, what you can control, what you cannot, if your mind is there, you can really take a call or make decisions which could be good or better for the larger cause, for the larger good for your organization and the people under you.
What was your original question here? I started responding to that and I think digressed. What had you asked? Sorry?
[00:19:08] Speaker B: I had asked that how can people start accepting it. Like the fact that everything is not in your control. Because people are so used to the idea that I want my perfect life. And this is exactly how it should be.
[00:19:23] Speaker C: Right, shruti? So first thing first.
You have no option because you cannot control as an individual human being in this universe. If you have that fallacy or misconception that we can control our existence, our day to day life, our situation, our people around us, you are living in fool's paradise. You cannot. Right. You can only control your actions, your thought, your reactions, the things which you have got absolute control. Everything else in the universe is, in the words of stoics, non controllable.
So you like it? You don't like it. Accept the fact. The day you will start practicing a mufati, the day you will understand dichotomy of control, you would have overcome half the problems of your life. Because then you are seeing life from a different perspective. Perspective which is empowering. Perspective which is full of clarity. And that's where tectonic shift will start happening. Then you'll see the existence.
Then you'll start seeing the life around you in a different hindsight. Right?
Yeah. Anything else on this?
[00:20:51] Speaker B: No. I think you have answered this question beautifully. And people will know exactly how to basically accept it and start following this philosophy in their life, in every aspect, personal and professional, and day in and day out. Yeah, right. So, Mr. Padhya, the next question that I have for you is that many people may associate this philosophy of stoicism with suppressing emotions. So how can you clarify that? Stoic philosophy doesn't mean suppressing emotions, but rather managing them effectively.
[00:21:32] Speaker C: Yeah. So stoics call it apathia. Right?
But nowhere stoics are saying suppress your emotions. They are saying, be aware of them.
See it as a third party. The moment you get angry, your emotions have shown up. You are in a situation where you are losing control.
Your peace is getting compromised. You are reacting it very negatively. Anger is overcoming.
Become aware you are getting angry. See it from third perspective. Oh, okay. Rakesh. So this situation has pushed you to in a corner where you are having a very aggressive response and you are getting angry. The moment you see it from a third perspective, you'll realize the awareness has gone up.
And that's what even in modern days now people talk about mindfulness being present in the moment and being aware about the situation.
Something. Again, they are also talking what stoich talked about 2000 years back. Imagine the philosophy of stoichism was brought to humanity some 300 year BC and existed up to 200 ad, around 500 years. And in Greece and Rome. Right. So what we are talking and what whole lot of NLP and psychologists and people in last century, last five, seven decades have been figuring out and taking deep dive and writing research papers and propagating was well known 2000 years back.
So it's not about suppressing your emotions. It's all about being aware about it. Once you become aware about it, then you will yourself realize it goes down. The negative emotions will start getting reduced. The positive emotions will start getting because you are feeding the right dog then right, as they say, a good dog, bad dog. So that analogy.
[00:24:12] Speaker B: So, Mr. Padhya, from my understanding, from what the discussion that we have been having is that stoic philosophy is mostly being in a meditative state all the time, being mindful all the time, because even being meditative means being present and it is staying far, far away from all the negative emotions. I think, in a way, would you agree with me on this, that meditativeness, mindfulness is a part of stoic philosophy?
[00:24:53] Speaker C: Yeah, in a way, yes.
It's like dancing in the rain.
It's like just free flowing, but in an aware state, in better control of emotions.
Right? Knowing what to respond, not to respond, when not to respond. There's another very powerful thought in stoichism where they say, ask everything, is it necessary?
Anything to everything. Do I need to talk? Do I need to respond? Do I need to do a work? Do I need to interact with X-Y-Z everything? Ask, is it necessary? Like this is seven wise in the modern context, they then said, ask is it necessary? So when you start internalizing this in your personal life, you start going quieter because then you're talking less. Because even talking is a waste of energy.
Like strikes say God has given two years, one mouth, speak half than what you hear and it's very effective. They talk about, look, now we are talking about listening actively or listening skills or deep listening. All these theories. Humanity has last six, seven decades.
Strikes were talking about this 2000 years back, right? So yes, it is.
If you would evaluate your every action through the prism of. Is it a lot of answers? You will get in.
Yeah.
[00:26:56] Speaker B: Mr. Padya, you have already answered a lot of questions that I had for you through the discussion that we have been having. So I think it's a very beautiful sign that when you are having the discussion and it just flows. So I think it's going beautifully. But I do have one last question for you here.
So in a world that often promotes rapid responses and constant activity, how can the stoic philosophy, emphasize on reflection and contemplation and how can it benefit leaders.
[00:27:34] Speaker C: This is very apt and very important thing and I'm so glad that you have kept as a showstopper in the last shruti.
Again, Stokes, were talking about writing your own sitting, spending some or taking some time out in a day, either morning or evenings, and looking back how the day has fared up. Marcus Aurelius used to write first thing in the morning after his mundane things, used to sit in a quiet corner and used to reflect what he did last 24 hours. What were the things which went well, which were not very effective, and what are the areas he would like to improve upon. When you put your mind to in this kind of reflective state, when you're looking back and the awareness goes up, then there's every possibility of you evolving as an individual because you're putting your mind and energy to the space where you want to grow.
So, reflecting reflection as a leader, hugely and very powerful tool which you see, any leadership tool, any leadership program, any leadership development module, journaling is part of it. So yes, reflection, writing down your own experiences, how you can be more effective, how can be you more better in your daily existence if you are doing that sitting all by yourself and looking within, it is very important to talk to self. As I say, go on a date with self, sit in a corner anywhere, just take a cup of coffee or whatever you coffee or something you want to cherish with and spend time with self. Lot of answers will come.
Lot of answers will come. You don't need to visit any expert if you are honest to self.
Strikeism talks about reflection. Strikeism talks about writing Journal Daily because that's a space where you will write down your learnings, your experiences, what you did wrong, what you should have been putting more energy to, what you would like to do better. And yeah, reflection is a very powerful tool, as you said.
[00:30:26] Speaker B: Perfect. Thank you, Mr. Padhya, for taking out time and throwing some beautiful light on this topic. The stoic philosophy and leadership. I think it definitely makes people understand the concept of it and why all of these key points that you mentioned are important in anybody's life. So thank you so much. And thank you for sharing all that knowledge with the audience who are going to see it, the audience who are going to listen to it, and also if there is a way to reach out to you, and if anybody wants to connect with you for one reason or the other. So could you maybe just end the episode with that?
[00:31:12] Speaker C: Sure. Sure. So, Shruti, two things. First thing I think somewhere you asked, but I think I could not put enough life to it. Like if somebody wants to start stoichism or strike way of existence or strike way of life, it's not something out of the world. It is very basic. Just start with tiny steps like I think mentioned in between. Put your mind into what is important, what is not, like what is controllable, what is non controllable. And then tiny, tiny, don't go too big. Accept your reality amofati, and ask yourself before doing or saying or indulging into anything, is it necessary? Zaru?
Is it really helping me in the larger vision or mission of my life? Who am I?
So these tiny, tiny things and of course a very powerful tool. Like we just mentioned about the journaling, when you start talking to self with no filter, when you are honest and writing down what you did, what you should not be doing, that's where the awareness improves, that's where the clarity comes, that's where the evolution or the growth of the individual starts happening. And then result of that is more success, more happiness, more growth, more promotions. So that having said, anybody can connect with me, I'm there on the LinkedIn with my name, rakeshapadhya and anybody if want to take my assistance for their own individual journey, they can connect with me through. Because all of the social media I'm not very because again, is it necessary? A lot of social media gets no, this is not necessary. One can, well, it eats a lot of time and it is distraction. So my presence is mainly on LinkedIn and that's where I am on my. Anybody can search me on my name there and can ping me and connect with me and whatever little I can do for their assistance, it would be my pleasure. And thank you. Thanks a lot Shruti for giving this opportunity and you've been such a lovely host.
[00:33:43] Speaker B: Thank you. Thank you. It was a lovely discussion. You and I learned so much and half of the questions that I was asking you, it was just completely out of curiosity that even I want to understand this because when I bring in some guests, obviously I do my research and I go through the topics, but then at the same time when the discussion actually starts, the conversation, reading something and having a conversation about it are like two different things.
Forgive my curiosity, but yeah, I love being curious.
[00:34:19] Speaker C: That's so profound, that's so powerful. The growth lies in curiosity. If you are curious, if you are having that business mind, childlike curiosity as they say. You'll go places, you'll grow, surely.
[00:34:32] Speaker B: Thank you.
[00:34:33] Speaker C: Bye bye. Take care. Thank you.
[00:34:34] Speaker B: Thanks a lot. Thank you. Have a good evening. Yeah, bye bye.
[00:34:38] Speaker C: You too.
[00:34:42] Speaker B: So, guys, that wraps up another insightful episode of Shruti out loud. And we hope you have enjoyed this session with Mr. Rakesha Pathyai. And we did dive deep into the world of leadership and the stoic philosophy. And Mr. Pathyai was such a wonderful guest and he answered all the questions that I had. And lastly, just remember that leadership isn't confined to the boardrooms. It is a skill that can enhance every aspect of our lives. So whether you are a corporate professional, an entrepreneur, or simply someone who's looking forward to sort of navigate life's challenges with grace, the wisdom of stoic philosophy. This wisdom of stoic philosophy can be your guiding light. So on that note, thank you so much for being a part of this, and I'll see you for the next episode. Namaste.
[00:35:33] Speaker A: If you enjoyed today's episode and want to hear more, make sure to subscribe to our podcast. Don't forget to leave us a review and share it with your loved ones. And if you're ready to share your own voice with the world through podcasting, remember, I'm just an email away at
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[email protected]. Until next time, keep shining, keep growing, and keep embracing the beautiful journey of life. This is Shruti signing off.
